May 12 2007
“That Niceness…”
Originally posted May 7, 2007 with update on May 12, 2007.
Mel posted on the violence of niceness a few days ago, as a reaction to the PBS documentary “The Mormons.”
What Mel is talking about is the most powerful quote of the documentary, coming from Margaret Toscano:
“That niceness, there’s something, there’s something vicious about niceness that struck me in this [excommunication]. That the niceness covered over the violence of what was being done. Because in fact excommunication is a violent action.”
[youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmdZTJSFdJY"]
Update, May 12, 2007
There is another section of the documentary that talks about “perfect obedience,” as Judith Freeman says. I tie the concept of perfect obedience and violence of niceness together–the violence comes as a response to perceived un-acted obedience, and then it’s covered with niceness. Anyone who had to visit the bishop’s office for a disobedient act knows what I’m talking about. You are humiliated and then told you are a great person. It is exactly what Toscano talks about. Disobedience is being sought after. Questions about disobedience are asked, even when there is no need for such inquiry.
Freeman exemplifies in the documentary this concept with a polygamy story, where a first wife has to learn to accept taking on a second wife:
“They really did try and make [polygamy] work, because, again, the idea of perfect obedience. You simply can’t say ‘I won’t do this.’ You can’t say that and be a good Mormon.”
[youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH4Jj0YLt0A"]
For the full documentary, please visit PBS.org.
7 responses so far
Wow, I had no idea.
Sad.
For those who know me, they know how I left Utah with an aversion for what I call “the culture of nice.” I was never able to explain it as well as Toscano does, but there you have it…
Wow. Thanks for posting this. I had to wait until I had some time to think this over. Damn…I really hate mormonism.
The YouTube video got a few comments as well, most of which are against this video. What I said there and I can say here as well is that you can go to the PBS website and see all 4 hours of the documentary. It covers all history and present issues, as well as a very tear-jerking section on sacrifices Mormons make, a section on Mormon fundamentalists and polygamy, statements from church leaders on on different issues, etc.
It is one of the best and most fairly done documentaries on Mormonism I’ve seen. I truly believe the makers of the documentary wanted to be as fair as possible and presented both sides of the story as much as possible.
I like your quote better than the one I put up. It’s the one I was looking for but was to impatient to find.
The comments over at YouTube were — sad. “Don’t you see the Pink Uni? I do and that’s all the evidence I need.” Really, the poor, picked upon, misunderstood nice people. Why can’t we meanies just let them be right so they can continue being nice?
It’s pretty obvious that the nice folks feel that it’s the Tusconos of the world that make them do those so-called “violent” things when all they want to do is be nice and save the world from the plague of not being nice Mormons just like them.
Thanks for putting the video out there, Mana.
I never talk about my Utah years anymore. This is my first post through which I’ve tried to express how I feel about what I call “my mormon experience.” And it was “that niceness” covering subtle violence that disturbed me the most. I don’t talk about it because I out-grew those times, but I can’t but hurt when I see my friends still torment themselves because of their attachments to the mormon world.
There is another section of the documentary that talks about “perfect obedience,” as Judith Freeman says. I tie the two together–the violence comes as a response to perceived un-acted obedience, and then it’s covered with niceness. Anyone who had to visit the bishop’s office for a disobedient act knows what I’m talking about. You are humiliated and then told you are a great person. It is exactly what Toscano talks about. Disobedience is being sought after. Questions about disobedience are asked, even when there is no need for such inquiry.
Freeman says in the documentary, “they really did try and make [polygamy] work, because, again, the idea of perfect obedience. You simply can’t say ‘I won’t do this.’ You can’t say that and be a good Mormon.”
I think this quote represents the institutionalization of the violence of niceness. How crazy is it that one could assign ones own actions — especially the sharp ones — to god. And the obedience you speak of requires that the recipient of the reproof must submit, not just as if but with full faith that it is the very had of god that smites them.
Also, I’ve come to see the journey across the plains, where so many innocents suffered and perished, as part of the cost of religious obedience as not unlike the MMM in its consequences. And the men who used a claim to god’s authority to command this obedience have the blood and tears of those who followed the Mormon Trail on their hands as certainly as those who commanded the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
And it is no different for the suffering of women (and children) who were commanded to obey ‘The Principle’ of polygamy.